In Conversation With #217 - The Amazons
On the precipice of the release of their third studio album, ‘How Will I Know If Heaven Will Find Me?’, The Amazons’ lead vocalist and frontman Matt Thomson joins us on Zoom to discuss madmen, boats, and, being British, the weather.
Hi Matt! Thanks for joining us – let’s get right into it!
First, how are you finding the weather? Are you managing?
You know what? I managed to escape the hottest days by being out of the country! I was in Los Angeles, and it was the first time I’d ever been there when the UK was hotter. It wasn’t that LA wasn’t hot – it was more of a ‘f*ck, it’s a really hot day, let’s see what’s going in in the UK’ – and holy crap, it was hotter. But I’m so glad; the heat over here is so different. Over here it’s sticky and humid; over there’s dried out by the sun.
Going outside has felt like a wall of sort of explosive, expansive heat hitting you – which I’ve worded to be the worst segue I’ve ever done. Speaking of explosive, you guys have had a much more explosive return than most other bands I’ve spoken to: headlining 110 Above and then touring with Royal Blood. What’s been your favourite moment?
Of the past two years? My god, that’s an interesting one. Obviously, there was definitely a lot of low points, collectively shared with everyone. So, highlights is an interesting one.
You mention 110 Above – last year, 2021, that was our first festival back after everything. That was a highlight, just being able to play again – get the tingles. But also, making this record. We had eight weeks in our own little creative bubble to make it, and it was just a really fulfilling experience, especially to work with a producer we’ve been a fan of for a long time, and to know that even working with him was possible.
And then to top it off… nah, there’s a couple more. Going on tour with Royal Blood was definitely a highlight, and the opportunity they gave us to be playing in front of so many people. It was a bizarre experience; it was quite overwhelming just trying to get back into the mechanics of touring and re-learning the tricks of the trade to staysane and healthy.
And THEN I would say one of the biggest things is just be able to hear these songs we’ve been working on for so long back in circulation, on the radio; getting that thrill of hearing songs like ‘How Will I Know?’ – that really is my heart in a song as I’ve never felt this way about our music before, purely because we had the time and the experience to dig deeper than we have done on the past two records – so to hear that then be circulated is like a ‘woah’ moment. There’s more at stake emotionally, it’s coming from a more vulnerable place. It sounds like a cliché, but this time we’re getting to find out where that cliché came from.
Before we move onto the new album: 110 Above. Did it feel like a last hurrah for Future Dust?
That’s a good question… Honestly? I think we were so over it by that point, we’d just kind of done it. The last hurrah was probably our last show in 2020, the first week of March. We finished a US tour in Los Angeles at The El Ray Theatre, and that felt like we were the tightest and the most road-worn we’d ever been -- that was a peak, even though we were supporting an act. If you were ever going to see us on the Future Dust tour, that was it, that was the peak Future Dust live experience. By the time we were doing 110, we were so deep into this new record that picking the setlist just felt strange. Are we going to go back in time, are we going to be playingTHAT song? These weren’t just ‘songs’, these were the main singles. Are we going to play ‘Mother’? I don’t knowif I’m in that place man. But it felt really good to play them actually, with a bit more distance from the album.
And now for the new album – how have the first live airings been so far?
It’s been great! It’s a relief to just release it, and everything else has just been the icing on the cake, the cherry right on the top. It’s a thrill just to see it out in the wild – you listen to it a million times before that moment, and then as soon as it’s out it feels like your work’s done.
We’ve never really worried about ‘the release week’ of a song, because all of our most successful songs are songs which have grown and taken on their own lives, so why would our new stuff be any different? We’re not at a stage of these massive bands, where releasing a song becomes an ‘Event’, so it’s just fun to see these songs grow. That’s what our expectation is, that they’re going to grow. That you release it, get some great radio play – and that’s always awesome, it’s such a thrill hearing it on the radio – and then you sit back, and you see where the song’s at in six months. Are people singing it at shows? That’s our most visceral, effective and potent way of working out whether a song is connecting with people.
The album seems a hell of a lot more hopeful than Future Dust. It still has moments of a sort of dark oppression, ‘One By One’ standing out in that respect, but on the whole it’s a lot brighter. Not that it’s a bad thing, but what brought about that change?
Before we started writing anything, I think we came off of the Future Dust tour feeling a little unfulfilled, especially in the UK where we were getting a lot more instant feedback from that loop of us playing the shows and seeing the audience. A lot of the Future Dust stuff felt a little like ‘you watch, we play’, and I wanted to stop that.That's not what we were doing this for. I don't care about looking cool on stage and being moody – I mean, there were moments on tour when we were rocking out to ‘Doubt It’ or ‘Mother’, and I'd crack a smile at someone in the front row and then I'd be like, ‘whoa, no smiling dude. This is meant to be dark dude.’ My inner monologues were telling me to stop talking, to stop smiling, which sounds so stupid. So I knew I had to write some new material.
As you said already with 'One By One’, the darker moments on the record -- that's just part of our DNA. We just can't stop that. We have to do those songs, because they’re just so much fun. But I felt that we wanted to try to connect more emotionally, and to try to come up with songs that we can play that are just more uplifting, like our heroes. Someone like Arcade Fire, or U2. Such communal experiences when you see them live. I think a series of epiphanies in 2019, and into 2020, kind of fuelled that realisation of like, who are we and what we want to do? Lockdown, as much as anything else, was at least a good opportunity for everyone to do some sort of introspection, some self-reflection. Nothing extreme, I didn't need to excavate too much.
But I realised two things. One, I wanted to lyrically talk about this long-distance relationship that I’ve been in, which was pre-COVID. So when COVID happened it kind of felt almost more fitting to do this record -- like, oh sh*t maybe that’s what I should talk about, because everyone is in a long-distance relationship now for a bit, in some way, even if it's like with someone down the road; you weren’t allowed to see them, so it might as well be long-distance. And then two, which is something that I've seen a lot of our peers talk about recently, like Maggie Rogers or IDLES: the whole notion that subverting narrative right now is basically kicking back against doom scroll and this kind of attention economy, based on negativity and outrage. Actually getting to make music that is positive and uplifting, but not in a way that ignores the darkness. It has to acknowledge it but we can still try and squeeze something good out of the situation. I think that's way more productive.
I was reading in the press release that a lot of these songs were sort of written in your own head for yourself, more than for the band, and that then you realised you were onto something, so to speak. How many of the original songs have survived the culling process?
Oh God. I mean, I'm looking at a list right here on my noticeboard behind my laptop. A lot of songs didn't make it past 2020. think the main ones that did were ‘How Will I Know’, which I believe was one, and I think ‘One By One’ did as well. ‘One By One’ I wrote pretty much straight off. You know that huge explosion in Beirut? [Google 2020 Beirut Ammonium Nitrate Explosion if you’re unfamiliar]. I wrote that around that time just as a way of kind of, I don't know, acknowledging this feeling that I had of my day-to-day life, feeling mundane, really sheltered, and really closed: just living in this attic in Brighton, looking out the window and feeling like the world was burning, but inside, for me, nothing was happening. Nothing. So that was the kind of feeling that fuelled ‘One By One’ of just being helpless to do anything whilst madman ruled the world.
Good thing that's not happening now.
[Grumble] Yeah… Nothing’s changed basically. Just got worse, great. I mean to be fair, it was a Donald Trump-y kind of time so it was just a little bit more acute of a feeling.
The story really was kind of writing band songs on the side, searching for what it all meant and what we wanted to do. Lyrically, specifically for me, lots of songs were being written from third person because I was saying to myself, “I don't have an interesting story to tell. Maybe I can create some characters that I can revisit stuff with, as a creative exercise”. Whatever. And yeah, I was sending these songs to my girlfriend, stripped back and acoustic, just as a way of communicating with her. When you're not with someone for like six or seven months, it's a long time, and it left me feeling kind of powerless. I felt like WhatsApp’s and FaceTime’s and all those sorts of forms of communication just weren't fulfilling, so I felt like, “sh*t, what can I do to bridge the gap a little bit? Maybe I could send her some songs, that's a good way to show her how I'm feeling”.
I’ve built my life around writing songs. It's like the one thing that I can offer that's not material. For example, there's a song called Northern Star which is a very literal example of that, where it's her birthday. I'm not with her, haven't seen for a long time, so I'm thinking, what can I do on top of sending material things across the world?
So, I wrote this song, ‘Northern Star’. I created a montage of iPhone footage that we'd shot over years that we were together, and I kind of just made this music video just for her. Then I just sent it as the song. She loved it and just went, “this has to be an Amazon song”. I was like “what?” I mean, you've heard ‘Northern Star’, that's different for us. So I said, “no, no, it's just for us, just our thing.” But she convinced me that I needed to send it to the boys. Cool. And the response was overwhelmingly yes, that it had to be on the record. I think it was Elliot [James Briggs, Bassist]’sfavourite song, and still I think is. So that's just like a very literal example of what I mean.
In terms of bringing them through – how was that sort of process? Both the recording and just kind of collating the tracks? The album flows incredibly well, especially considering it comes from two frames of mind. So how was that bringing them together?
It really wasn’t typical for the Amazons. It was a new process for us writing wise, and something that will probably carry on for a while now. It was writing, you know, lots of songs, like 30, 35 songs, and picking the best ones. Not just the best ones, the ones that fit the theme. I mean, I wasn’t writing about my long-distancerelationship, every single song goes on.
But it was looking at this huge drop box folder of songs and picking out the ones that yes, are really good, and are finished – that’s always a good parameter of putting something on the record! – but stuff that just kind of told the story. This was the album that was going to tell this story, so there wasn’t any point in leaving stuff out.
There were songs we finished after recording the album that didn't quite make sense to be on the album, but I think were f*cking amazing, some of the best stuff we've written, that we’ll release, you know, as a single next year or will find their way onto the next record, so. We've got plenty of material for that now, which was is a completely unique experience for the Amazons. We've never done that ever. It's always been 12 songs written, 12 songs on the record; whatever we wrote, we put it on.
In terms of these 12 songs then are there any you all are particularly excited to play?
Yes – the one song that we haven't been able to play, that we haven't been able to work out how we play it live, is ‘Say It Again’. We have no idea. We've been trying to play it and it's really hard to do it without sounding like a pile of sh*t.. So I believe we're bringing a buddy in some extra guitar and keys duties for the tour in October.I think, well, that's when we'll crack it. Northern Star will get it’s debut at Amazing Grace, which for me as well is such a fun song to play. ‘How Will I Know? we've written some more parts to too, because playing the song like it is on the record is never enough with the Amazons, we have to play around with it. So I'm really excited about this new arrangement.
You were saying about writing acoustically and then obviously the tiny shows. The first time I saw you guys was, or at least saw you, was at the Albertine Wine bar in Shepherd’s Bush, about five and a bit years ago.
We got signed that day! And we played the pub next door?
Defector’s Weld!
Or maybe I've got my years wrong? Maybe we played Defector’s Weld the year before and got signed there? Yeah that!
It was brilliant! But the two questions from that are, what are the pros and cons for you guys playing small shows like the Amazing Grace or the album release shows coming up versus The O2 back in March, and then on the flip side of it, same for sort of acoustic? Like you did Albertine Wine Bar, you've been posting rehearsal room clips acoustic, and like you did with (I want to say) Jade Bird over lockdown, versus the full rock ones?
Well, to start with the acoustic versus full live one, there's like a ceiling of possible exhilaration, a ceiling on the potential thrill, that can be achieved with the acoustic thing. You can see the whites of peoples’ eyes and have a rough, intimate kind of very mellow joy, whilst live shows are like…
Warm?
Yeah, very hot! Maggie Rogers recently called her tour Feral Joy, which is very fitting. So acoustic shows are mellow joy and tours are feral, a very feral kind of joy.
And the other one was smaller shows next to O2s? Oh, they are different beasts. They're really different beasts.For us, the ultimate show would be in a slightly bigger venue? I don't know. The proximity to the audiences on smaller shows means that anything can happen; people might fall on your paddle boards and you've just kind of got to accept the fact that it's going to be chaos.
And I'd say the logistics or the mechanics behind the scenes – when we're playing the O2 with Royal Blood, you get catering! And a great sound check.
I don't know man. I prefer the bigger shows because they’re novel, and I understand why stadium bands love smaller shows because they just play stadiums all the time. It kind of just depends what you're used to and what you're new to; the bigger shows are just more novel to us, and different, and exciting, and a new challenge. I love playing to ‘Row Z’. I love it. I mean, those are the shows that got us excited about music. Seeing Arcade Fire at the O2 or in Hyde Park or, you know, huge spaces and a big PA and big emotions and everything. That’s what we're always reaching for.
Though I will say like a lot of our formative years were spent in the smaller venues, and they can be just as magical in different ways.
Final few questions if that’s okay! For the tour. How did the BBC Introducing slots come about? And as a sort of follow on to that one, I always love asking what bands can you recommend that people won't have heard of, that they need to check out?
Oh, that's a great question. OK. So the first one is, I don't know, it came out of a conversation with me and my manager of having friends who've released music and, you know, were signed just before the pandemic or just during the pandemic, or even are unsigned, and were just not able to tour. Not able to do the most fundamental part of what I think music is all about: connecting with people live. And well, BBC Introducing… I mean first of all, they're institution in the UK, and I'm yet to see an equivalent worldwide. Plus they've been super supportive over the years. So we figured why don't we do something in partnership with them? So it was really just going to BBC Introducing with this idea and just saying, can you help us curate some acts? Let’s listen to some regional shows, let's just find some music, and put on people that we wanted to put on? Like Molly Peyton in London for example, but also it helped us discover loads of awesome new acts like RO in Belfast. I’d never heard of her, but I’ve been listening to her loads since. So that was a load of fun. It's going to be really cool just to see some of these acts played live. I don't have to go up to Glasgow to see anyone, they can just play for us before we play! It's a banging deal. And what was the other question?
Bands in general you'd recommend that people won’t have heard of?
Well, first of all, there's a band called more* from Los Angeles who are so sick. They’re a two piece, they were on tour with HAIM. Dora Jar, she's an amazing solo artist based in London and she's just signed to Island Records, who are our label in the US. So I'm excited to see where that goes, and she's just such an example of being free creatively and just not giving a sh*t, which sounds like a cliché but it’s actually a lot harder to do when you have a team! Muna. I mean, who isn’t talking about Muna at the moment? F*cking amazing. There’s a singer-songwriter in Los Angeles called Amy Allen, who’s known for being a songwriter and writing for people like Harry Styles and YUNGBLUD, and a bunch of other people, but I like her solo stuff even more!
Yeah, there you go! There's some music for ya!
One final question, but I started asking this a few months ago and it's given some very interesting answers, so no pressure. What does the Amazons mean to you?
Oh f*ck. The Amazons is like… it's like a ship to me. You're dependent on the wind and where that's going, where that's blowing for where you go, but. Yeah, it's kind of a ship with billowing sails. I feel like the last couple of records it's kind of been working out where to go with a broken compass, and now with this record I feel like we've got a working compass and I feel like we know where to go creatively. Feels like we've really found our route. Found our X marks the spot, even if that X is a f*cking thousand miles away. But we're still on the way there.
[Warming to it] Yeah, it's a ship! The Amazons has whisked me away on so many insane adventures, almost always location based like Japan or Australia or the United States or just any of those kinds of things or places that you feel like ‘So – we got here through music. What??’
And hopefully we'll be on the ship for a little bit longer!
Feature by James O’Sullivan
